SIDEREAL VERSUS TROPICAL

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SIDEREAL VERSUS TROPICAL

Postby Rumen_Kolev on Fri May 15, 2009 1:58 pm

Recently Wolfgang Tomsists made me aware of an article of the INDIAN scholar
K. Chandra Hari
Indian Journal of History of Science, 33 (4) 1998
'ON THE ORIGIN OF SIDEREAL ZODIAC AND ASTRONOMY'
THIS is available in the internet somewhere in a PDF for DOWNLOAD.

The guy comes to the conclusion that the lambda Scorpioni = 240
which is the same as SPICA = 29 deg. 16 min. VIRGO

This is the same as the Babylonian Ecliptic (KUGLER in his SSB computed the zero-point of the Bab. ecliptic)
(( The author does not know about this and bases his study on a Bab. star almanac from 300 BC. Thid zero point there is around 1 deg. off id est SPICA = 28 deg. Virgo ))

The lambda Scorpioni is envisioned by Hari as coresponding to the lowest chakra in the bottom of the spinal brain and ALSO with the begin of KALI-YUGA.

Very interesting is that these things are confrmed also by my own research.
Hari though leans on mythology and mystical texts. (the mainstream will dismiss him easily and immediately...)
I am steping on astronomy-mathematics and babylonian-sumerian astro texts (rock-solid evidence).
This research of mine, I hope, will be published until the end of this year.
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Re: SIDEREAL VERSUS TROPICAL

Postby Dimityr Kojuharov on Mon May 18, 2009 4:54 pm

In an article published in "The traditional astrologer"from August 1996 Nick Kollerstrom has come to the same conclusion based upon an experimental research of charts from the hellenistic period. Here is part of this article:

"I noticed that the recent book Ancient astrology by Tamsyn Barton entirely takes for granted that the astrologers of antiquity were using the tropical zodiac.I decided to check up on this using that fine compilation of ancient charts Greek Horoscopes by Otto Neugebauer.It seemed to me that Neugebauer was not well able to reach a conclusion as to what zodiac framework was in the use in these charts-merely because computing these things was so much harder then than it is today.
About one-fifth of his charts have zodiac longitudes specified for the planets and have reliable-known times for which they were cast.I took these, and also two or three others I managed to glean from other sources, and plotted their ayanamsa against the year of their composition , as shown in the diagram below.
The graph shows that in the 1st century AD , planetary longitudes were about 3 degrees greater than would be expected if they were using the tropical zodiac , while in the 5th century they were 2 degrees less than would be expected from using the tropical zodiac.
Siderealists such as Cyril Fagan argued that the ancients used a star -zodiac defined by Aldebaran at 15 degrees Taurus , and this ayanamsa is shown by the line in the graph with triangles on it.It doesn't fit.Instead , a line taking Spica as 30 degrees Virgo (sidereal) goes quite nicely through the data.They both show the big moment in he 3th century when the two zodiac systems came into synchrony."
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Re: SIDEREAL VERSUS TROPICAL

Postby Therese_Hamilton on Mon May 18, 2009 6:09 pm

Dear Mr. Kojuharov,

Thank you for your interesting post and graph. The graph does resemble Kellerstom's on the zodiac ancient astrologers were using. Your graph clearly shows the Fagan-Bradley and Lahiri (Spica) patterns.

I've computed (Solar Fire 5.1) some of the Babylonian horoscopes found in Rochberg's BABYLONIAN HOROSCOPES, and found that in general the figures were closer to the Lahiri/Krishnamurti values. The Fagan/Bradley ayanamsa places Spica at 29 Virgo while the Lahiri ayanamsa has Spica at 30 Virgo. For those interested, there is a short article and comparison table here: http://users.snowcrest.net/sunrise/arochberg.htm

I am most happy that you have computed the charts in GREEK HOROSCOPES and graphed the results. There seems little doubt that astrologers were working in the sidereal zodiac, though they may not have been aware of what they were doing.

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Re: SIDEREAL VERSUS TROPICAL

Postby Rumen_Kolev on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:38 pm

As with all other 'problems' also here we will find the key in the Babylonian Astrology.

The fact is that the mesopotamians (and the vinchans [proto-cimmerians] from the Balkans) ALWAYS used the tropical system.
They watched the sun-rise and the place on the horizon from where the Sun was rising.
The calendar of the Golden Epoch was the Babylonian Astrolabe.
1 year with 12 'months' and 3 constellations rising each month from north center and south.
The equinox was in the middle of the First month (NISAN).

The sidereal zodiac may have been used for computations of planetary positions. In later times- 500 BC- this is the case.
But many PLANETARY Phenomena are connected with the sidereal zodiac.
Mars attains to his max brilliancy in Capricorn for thousands of years and this is independent from the precession of the planet-Earth....
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